Geroge Parada (guest)
00:00:02.080 - 00:00:38.640
I love to build relationships with people. One of the things that really bit me early on in my career is that I always wanted to maintain those positive relationships with folks.

And I probably didn't do the best of job of like holding teams accountable and being very direct with them around when I needed to have those difficult conversations with them. And so that bit me. And I would say even folks tend to take advantage from leaders like that.

And so for me, that's one thing that I've really shifted on as I've progressed in my career around setting expectations from the very beginning.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:00:40.880 - 00:01:56.480
Hi there and welcome to the Step up podcast. I'm your host, Kent Knievel.

Every week I talk to experts who focus on helping leaders step up their leadership game and leaders telling their stories of growing up through the ranks. If you're new to the show, do me a favor and subscribe so you never miss an episode. One last thing.

As a leadership development consultant and executive coach, focus area of mine is supporting newly promoted leaders.

One in three promotions fail because we never teach newly minted VPs how to stop being a director, or in newly promoted director how to stop being a manager. That's you.

Or if you support a leader who has been recently promoted, I encourage you to visit my website at Kent Coach Toolkit and download a free copy of the Promoted Leader Toolkit filled with practical advice and tools to help new leaders stick the landing and and truly step up to their new leadership level. All right, I've dillied and dallied long enough. On with the show. Welcome everybody. Today we have a treat.

We have another interview with a real life leader.

So among the mix of talking with authors and consultants, you know, I'm trying to bring on more voices for leaders and just kind of hearing directly about your experience. So with me today is George Parratta. He's an account executive with J. Jll. George, thanks for being willing to come on today.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:01:56.800 - 00:01:59.440
Thank you, Ken. I'm excited to be here and to speak with you.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:01:59.920 - 00:02:14.320
Yeah, well, I'm excited to get into it. So let's, let's take it from the top.

I'd love if you could at least, you know, give a sort of brief career or career story, tell us a little bit about, you know, yourself and, and kind of landing on what you're doing today.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:02:14.960 - 00:03:14.530
Yeah, happy to do that.

So I am a mechanical engineer by, by trading and here based in the San Francisco Bay area and I went to school to do engineering and when I thought what I was going to do is not what I Did even coming right out of college and even what I'm doing today. But these things work themselves out to that degree.

And so I started off my career with an organization in the food and beverage manufacturing space over at Cargill Incorporated, where I spent about 13 years of my initial career right out of school in operations, maintenance and engineering type of roles.

And I would say it was, it was a organization where I was able to learn quite a bit around the aspects around leadership where I got thrown into a leadership role literally like on my first day. And I did not know what I was getting into. But what I did learn is that I developed a passion for leadership very quickly.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:03:14.600 - 00:03:15.080
Quickly.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:03:15.720 - 00:05:11.080
This organization invested a lot into me to be the leader of who I am today and the leader that I was during my time there.

And when I was getting ready to make the move outside of Cargill, where I had elevated from a production supervisor all the way up to a director of engineering over the course of those 13 years, I was, was ready to just make the move outside of Cargill.

And so I joined another food and beverage organization for about 18 months where then I then jumped over into the tech data centers world with Facebook, which, which is now Meta, where I spent about three of my years there, actually stepping back down into an individual contributor role after I had been promoted into these director level roles. But I did that Kent, because I wanted to really learn that business.

I wanted to get an understanding of how this organization was different after spending, you know, about 14, 15 years in, in an organization and industry where I was, I would say, comfortable. And so I, I had a great experience at Meta.

I left there after three years where I essentially built out an organization where I was a team of one and became a team of about 35.

And then I joined JLL where I'm at today, which is an integrated facilities management and commercial real estate firm here based also in, in North America.

And here I've actually now in the role as an account executive where I have strategic oversight in partnership with my client in the life sciences industry or vertical. And I lead a team of about 300 plus individuals that are supporting a life sciences client out here in the Bay Area.

So it's been a very interesting journey. Had a lot of lessons learned throughout the last 20 years or so.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:05:12.040 - 00:06:03.120
Yeah, well, having, you know, I'm not sure if we crossed over at Cargill, but having been there and been at, you know, this large organization, I know myself, I've been at fairly large organizations and I've been talking more and more with Leaders lately who have either kind of been in a entrepreneurial kind of organization that scaled or even tech startup that scaled. One thing I'm curious before we really dive in is, you know, what was the transition like going from Cargill, who not everybody really knows, right.

But, but they're very large, you know, you, you tend to go level by level, you know, through sort of this journey of learning leadership, if you want to think about that way. You know, lots of structure, lots of rules. I would just love to hear what was the experience like going from Cargill to Facebook?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:06:04.160 - 00:07:29.330
Yeah, I know it was very interesting because I was going into something exactly like you said, coming from somewhere where it was very structured, you know, 150 year plus organization to somewhere that they weren't at the time, they weren't even 20 years in. And I would say even today I have friends and colleagues that still work there. I mean it probably tends to still operate as a startup.

But I did that for two reasons. One, you know, I wanted to grow in my career.

I wanted to expose myself to other, other industries, you know, as part of like my career mapping, if you will.

But then I also wanted to ensure that I can apply my, my lessons learned, my, my leadership journey to somewhere where I have to like really kind of just set myself from the beginning.

And what I mean by that is that I really wanted to understand how do I establish myself in a brand new organization after, let's say for 13 years, I was very comfortable. You know, I knew Cargill like now. You know, I was with a particular business unit. As you know, Cargill has many business units.

I interacted with a lot of them.

And while it was a great experience, I wanted to just kind of understand how do I now graduate from being very comfortable to now being uncomfortable. And so that was something that was pretty big transition for me.

I had to also take a little bit of a bet that I was going to be able to successfully do that.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:07:30.210 - 00:07:48.030
Did you find that you had to sort of unlearn or relearn any leadership lessons going from the structure that surrounds a bigger older company, you know, any, anything pop out in particular where you were like, you could kind of highlight what you had to adjust?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:07:48.750 - 00:08:34.950
Yeah, I would say from coming from an organization very structured to a one that was less structured, I was able to more bring some of like those lessons learned and experiences to you know, like the meta Facebooks, because that didn't really, that wasn't really in place. Right.

You know, Cargill really invested a lot into me around like high Performance leadership academies, organizational effectiveness, change management, where a lot of that didn't really exist.

And so I would say a lot of the success I was able to have at Meta was putting in some of those processes, putting in some of that structure, but then really like educating the teams around me, especially my direct reports that that was the ways of working or that was going to really make us successful.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:08:35.510 - 00:08:55.030
Well, and maybe it comes down to change management, but you found that they were receptive to sort of bringing in this more like you bringing your.

Not to say you're, you're like a formal person per se, but, but that you bringing in a bit more of a formal background in some of these sort of leadership skills and tactics.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:08:55.510 - 00:10:09.510
Yeah, yeah, no, it was definitely a little bit of eye opening I think for some of the folks that I was interfacing with, you know, where they were very much like let's focus around like today versus that. Like let's not really talk about the big picture and like the five year plan, George, because right now is like we're trying to move fast.

You know, we're trying to grow where you know, companies like Cargill and even like JL where I'm at today, like we're thinking more about like the longer, the longer play if people don't. So that was a little bit of adjustment for me.

But I also had to challenge myself that like I can't forget about those experiences that I developed in with my previous employers because some of, some of us like we tend to forget where we've been and where we've come from that then we just, we get sucked into the new culture and then we just now start operating that way.

So that's one thing that I always tell my teams even to this day, that there's a specific reason why I hired you, Kent or George, that you bring these good experiences, you bring this really good structure that I want you to like bring that.

And it's not going to be a cookie cutter approach because you're going to find ways around how to adapt it with like those tools and those skill sets. But it's something that like it's very important that I always try to stress with my, with my new team members.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:10:10.630 - 00:10:37.970
Thanks for kind of indulging my big company to startup Mode company.

So let me just take a kind of zoom out and as you think about your career in leadership, what was either the hardest leadership level that you were promoted into and or just the hardest leadership transition? Maybe, maybe it was a lateral but you know, what was the kind of that, that hardest leadership role that you jumped into.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:10:38.530 - 00:11:45.250
Yeah, I would probably say it's the role that I'm in right now.

And you know, I, you know, I've always been in roles where I was, I was reporting into, you know, like senior leaders, but now within the organization where I'm supporting my client today, like, I am the guy, like, the buck stops with me. Yeah, I mean, I have, I have a managing director that I report into that she has oversight over other accounts.

But I ultimately, I have ultimate responsibilities over all things financial compliance, people, operations, day to day things. Right. And so to me, it's been a, you know, it's been a big transition for me because, you know, there's a little bit of that imposter syndrome.

There's a little bit of that man, like, you know, what am I doing and making sure that I'm doing it right. And so, you know, we've had that, I'm sure, like throughout our careers.

But like, to me, like, this is like probably been the most significant transition because now as I think about the teams that are all looking to me to make the right decisions to support them, this has probably been the most significant.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:11:45.730 - 00:12:18.620
So I'm hearing you right? Part of what has made this so challenging have been maybe all these sort of accountabilities or.

But I might even just point at them and say like, sort of specialty areas that perhaps in other previous or junior roles you didn't have to like, it sounds like you have a bigger role with people, maybe HR even, so to speak, today than you have in the past. Right. And so, so it's sort of having to lead things you don't have a background in, if I'm hearing. Is that correct?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:12:18.700 - 00:13:13.520
Yeah, that's correct.

Because I mean, in the other role, like, I mean, for example, like my previous role on another account, you know, like I was a peer to, let's say those finance directors, those compliance and HR directors, where now like, you know, I have oversight over that. But what I would say those experiences taught me, like when I was in that previous role is that I know what to expect of that role.

And you know, I had the pleasure of working with some very good, let's say directors at that level and also had the experience of working with some not so good ones. So I also know like, what to expect of seeing like what good looks like. So I'm able to challenge like those individuals.

But more importantly, Kent, it's about bringing the leadership to how we bring and we bridge all those, those functions together and so that's something that I've really been practicing here to ensure that I'm successful. But ultimately like the team is successful around how they collaborate and work together.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:13:14.720 - 00:13:29.760
So when you can't fall back on your functional experience, right, what, what are the prior leadership lessons, you know, are you sort of bringing forward into this role to lead folks who have a completely different functional background?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:13:30.320 - 00:15:11.770
Yeah, I really focus around roles and responsibilities, you know, so as an engineer, you know, I tend to be a little bit structured when it comes to thinking things from like what we call like a racy perspective. So like who's responsible, who's accountable, who's being consulted and who needs to be informed.

I've been doing that since I got here and I really wanted to make sure that at various levels of the organization, not just my leadership team, but the folks even below and within that they understand the role that they play and how do we keep our finance manager involved and should they be the ones actually presenting the content or should they actually be more the subject matter expert that, you know, we're also building capabilities in others.

Like, so as an example, I have facility managers that report into me and if you think about their role is to really understand how they manage their business, their specific site, which means that they also be, they're responsible for their finance, for their, their finances and for their budgets and for forecasting.

And so instead of like them having it easy, if you will, I've said like, guys, like, I need you to like tap into your finance team and build that capability because what am I doing? I'm, I'm building them up.

So when they come into like roles like mine, they know enough to be dangerous, but they also are not completely aloof or not aware of like what, what those functions are supposed to do.

I mean, I would say I've had those experiences that have prepared me to now be able to decipher of when you need to also call, hey, like that's not right. Or you know, you need to be able to also challenge these teams because they're also.

How do you know if you have a good one or not, you know, in those functions?

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:15:12.090 - 00:16:03.710
Yeah, well, and letting go of having to know the intricacies of everything is probably a big, you know, probably a long term journey across multiple levels, I'm sure.

But especially once you're, you know, you're leading people who, they've spent their entire career in their background, you're, you're trying to pick up what you need to know at your level.

But I think you're, you know, you're highlighting something here, too, which I've seen leaders sort of struggle with, which is how do you let them step forward and, you know, present, be the expert and even kind of recognize their success as your success versus you needing to be so conversationally competent in what they have to say that you're the one, you know, presenting it?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:16:04.270 - 00:17:01.550
Yeah.

Kenton, One thing that is just fresh in my mind because I literally just, I had my whole leadership team together last week, and it was an amazing couple of days. And, you know, we had a learning and development person come in and just talk to our team around emotional intelligence.

Now, this is a topic that a lot of us, you know, have been exposed to, while maybe some have not. But what we really focus on is how do we think around emotional intelligence at the senior leadership level?

And a big focus for us was really around listening. Right.

And so when you talk about, like, what you just said, it's really, like the power around listening and not just around what people are saying, but what are they not saying. And so that was something that really resonates with me.

It's something that, you know, even, like, in my cargill days, which was now, you know, almost eight years, eight plus years ago, is how are you ensuring that you are taking the time to, like, listen to your team and understand, like, where they're at and where they're.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:17:01.550 - 00:17:18.170
Coming from, seeing if that's something that you kind of learned maybe earlier in your career. How has that sort of stuck with you?

How have you tried to impart that on leaders that you lead in terms, you know, leaders that you're training on, how to be good leaders?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:17:19.370 - 00:19:55.890
Yeah.

So I'll start with, you know, so I'm, you know, first generation, you know, from my family that, you know, was, was the first one to graduate from college. You know, here, you know, my, my family's originally from Central America. And so, you know, I would say I come from humble beginnings.

And one of the things that, like, my, my mom taught me, like, this very early on is just to, like, always remain humble, you know. And it's interesting because that's actually one of our JLL behaviors.

We talk about being humble and ensuring that we are never putting ourselves above, you know, like, other individuals.

When I first joined this account about a year ago, you know, I, I, I first, I want, I told my team, like, hey, I want to go and meet as many people as I can. Right? Like, I told you, like, two, 300 people here on, on this account.

And so I wanted to go to the floor, sorry, like, the shop floor level, like, where the folks that are doing the work, and I want to understand them, like, hey, where are they at today? Like, where do they need some support and what barriers can I remove from them? And one of the things that I said in that conversation was that I'm.

I always want to, like, understand that and I'm sorry. I want them to understand that we are always, at the end of the day, co workers. Right.

Like, we just happen to have different roles and responsibilities. And that really struck one of the. One of the individuals on the team where he actually came after.

He came up to me after, like, the meeting, after I had just met with some of, like, these, you know, these technical engineers. He's like, George, you know, you said something in there that just really stuck out to me.

And like, you know, you know, you're like, in this very senior role, you know, like, you know, he's like, probably like three or four levels above me. But I really appreciated, like, what you said about just really thinking about it from that lens, because then that kind of just puts us as equal.

Right? You always hear about the. The term around the. You know, we can talk from like the CEO to the janitor. It's like.

Well, I mean, that's my approach on it, Kent, is that we really need to be grounded. And remember, like, we. We've all progressed, we've all started, you know, at the lowest levels.

And for those of us that have been, you know, had the blessing or the opportunity to now operate here, that's something that we can never. We can never really forget. And. And last week I wanted to share and I had my notes here because I.

This is something that, like, our facilitator talked to us about it, you know, and about the power of listening. And she said, I may no longer be six feet from the work, but I'm six feet from the solution. Right.

So, like, I may not be able to know, like, who or how I do this today, but I now know who I need to go and get that answer so I can support you.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:19:56.130 - 00:20:17.850
Nice. I think that's. It's hard for leaders to let go, right?

Let go of knowing the answer to everything, let go of having to have their hands on the solution to everything. What's that journey been like for you over the sort of duration of your leadership career?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:20:18.170 - 00:21:24.350
Yeah, I would say it's a work in progress for me, Kent, as I think about some of the technical engineering aspects. I mean, obviously, as an engineer, you know, I love Digging into the details and understanding how some of that work is done.

And I've had to like really like mentally tell myself is that George, you need to start to remove yourself because if you're focused too much on the tactical, you're not going to be able to like connect the dots around like the bigger picture of things, right?

So while it's important that I've had that experience and I can connect myself to that, I've also had to like force myself to remove myself some of that.

Making sure that the people that are in those roles to be able to do that, you know, that tactical, those tactical activities in that work that they have like the overarching guidance from their teams. Because now I am at times maybe six layers removed or five, four layers removed from like that work.

And so I've had to really pull myself out of those conversations and ensure that I just have like the right people in those, in those roles to do that. But again, that's why it comes down to like, you know, the races and the roles and responsibilities.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:21:25.870 - 00:23:07.980
And what's interesting is I feel like this is a, it's a leadership lesson that has to be relearned every level, right? It's not just a, you have to kind of just figure out how it shows up differently at the next level.

And it's really easy to look at first time managers who are, who were individual contributors a week ago and now they're managing individual contributors.

And it's really easy to kind of pick on that level and say, you know, you have to learn how to stop being an individual contributor, not be a super individual contributor. You need to learn how to be a supervisor.

And yet, you know, when you're proported, promoted to a level where you're now managing supervisors, it's kind of the same thing, right? You have to learn how to let go of managing one team, right.

And not think of yourself as managing five teams, but think of yourself as managing five managers of five teams, right? And so there's like this nuance of this exact same lesson that you have to relearn at, at every level, right? It's very, I mean it's common.

You talked, you know, I, I coach leaders who are in The C suite, VPs, directors, and I, I run into people who, it's like the same challenge, it's just like a different flavor, right. That they have to kind of relearn when was your. And most can point to like an aha moment of like I really have to let go of being in the mix, right?

So to speak. Right. You know, what, what was your sort of big aha moment on learning how to sort of let go of.

And maybe, maybe I'll paint it this way, letting go of how your people went about doing their work versus just kind of focusing on what the end result was, what the goal was that they were chasing down.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:23:08.780 - 00:25:12.920
Yeah, I would say, Kent, it was probably like within the last, like four years, you know, so the last, you know, almost four years, you know, being here at jll, there's been a lot of tasks, there's been a lot of strategic goals that I've identified, whether me, myself specifically or within the teams that I've led.

And I've quickly seen as I've been putting this focus around roles and responsibilities and around what tasks that we're spending our times on that we're working on a lot.

And the thing is that if you don't have the right levels of roles working on these things, you do this whole element that I like to call that we're working miles across, but only inches deep, so we're working on everything and then nothing is getting done. So I talked to my team around, like, we got to start planting some flow flags of like, hey, milestone completed. This is now done.

But I've, in the past, I've really struggled with that because, you know, we want to be in all the fun things and the, you know, all of those tasks and activities and as we start to like, really paint around, like, like what tier level or what specific type of tasks or programs, projects that we should be working on, if we don't have that, like, well defined, we're not going to make the progress. Progress.

And in the land of having clients that are looking to you to make progress around facilities management, like, in my world, we're not going to make the progress, which means that we're not going to be able to deliver on what our clients are expecting us to do.

And I can see that also applies like, you know, in the, in the world, like when I was at Cargill, where I needed to make sure that I was getting those bags of product out the door, that every role had a certain role to play.

So this is why I stress the importance around, like, crystal clear, well defined roles and responsibilities to make sure that you got, let's say the CEOs and the C suite working on the right stuff versus you got the guys all the way down at the shop floor, that they're the ones that are putting product in the bag or they're the ones that are Keeping the lights on for the scientists, you know, here at the labs of my clients that I'm supporting here today.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:25:13.640 - 00:25:50.270
Yeah. Do you ever catch yourself or even like how do you stop yourself from, as you're thinking about like a racy model. Right.

And you're, you're thinking about that for different buckets of the work that all report into you. Do you ever catch yourself or how do you stop yourself from putting yourself into. You know, because I would imagine at your level. Right.

Probably you should probably be aiming more often to be informed, maybe consult, consulted. Yeah.

And, and rarely accountable or, or responsible and in terms of like, you know, for the audience, if you're not familiar with racy, you know, responsible and accountable folks have their hands on it in particular.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:25:50.350 - 00:25:50.630
Right.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:25:50.630 - 00:26:13.040
We're not, you know, ultimately you're responsible, George, for everything that rolls up to you.

But how do you either catch yourself or fight the urge to give your, you know, put yourself in the responsible or accountable chair when you kind of, you could, you're the leader, you could. And some of that stuff might be fun, you know, for you. Yeah, let me just, I think I, however you want to answer that.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:26:13.120 - 00:27:52.520
Yeah, no, so I, I recently found myself having to really, again, like I was telling you earlier, Ken, like to force myself because I had a, I had an opening on my team where I had to not only play my role as the account executive, but I was also playing like the next level role down. And so, and while that role was vacated, you know, I, I had to kind of play like that next level down.

But now as I've recently filled that role with, you know, a great, talented person on my team, I really want to make sure that on that racy, my name is probably not on there for like some of those specific things that that person is probably going to be accountable for. Because to your point, yes, I'm ultimately accountable like for all the things like at jll. But I, I, I, I, I can't be on that racy.

I, I, I probably shouldn't even be in some of those meetings. And that's where I need to also force myself saying in my one on ones with my specific direct reports, hey, how is that progressing?

Like, where can I support you? What barriers do I need to remove?

Because ultimately when we're at this level, we're not removing barriers for like those other senior directors and leaders on our teams to make sure that they are feeling supported and that I could be an effective manager to them, you know, and if they come to me and say, hey, we want, want you to dig in. Like, you know, like. Oh, I mean, obviously I'll dig in.

I mean, like you said, that stuff is fun, but it's really about being purposeful around how you spend your time to ensure that. Yeah, I gotta go and work on some of these other things too, which in, in my case today, it's growing the business.

I can't grow the business with my client if I'm digging into the thing. That's why I need to have like the right people at those roles.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:27:54.020 - 00:28:44.700
I, I've come across a lot of leaders who, in their journey to figuring this out, you know, they kind of have this. My people need to see that I'm willing to roll up my sleeves and get dirty too. So I think there's both a lesson for leaders to learn around.

But do you, But I do think there's also some people or even sort of industries where your, your people almost expect it as well. So I guess I'm kind of curious.

Have you had to navigate tricky conversations with direct reports to kind of explain, here's why I'm not going to, you know, be taking the wheel from you here. Here's why I'm not, you know, sitting in the passenger seat with you. Have, you know, have you had to have any sort of tricky conversations like that?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:28:45.520 - 00:30:23.010
Yeah, and I think a lot of it, it's really around exactly what you're kind of going is to clarify like with, with the team. Right. And so like, for example, we had a workshop earlier this, this year where I had to play the role as more as an executive sponsor.

And you know, it was, for me, it was really important there, or again, not to just my direct reports, but to everybody in the room. There was about 20 people in this, in this workshop around what my expectations were and how they need to be focused around that.

But then what my role is now in supporting this. Right.

And so if there are barriers and how they're going to progress, what the outputs are of this workshop, that's where I'm here to support them on. And in some cases they also want me to just get out of their way. And I'm like. And I'm totally fine with that.

And I actually love that, you know, because I want them to also do it their way. And so sometimes us as leaders, we also need to like, think about that.

We're also, we're always not going to get it the way that George or Kent would like it. Right. Because we want people to be creative and innovative in how they deliver activities and tasks and projects and programs.

And so again, to me, this is why I, I need to also clarify to my team of like, why I may not be in the room for the. Holy it.

I have another one coming up here in two weeks where I said, hey, I'm going to pop in from time to time for this four week, I'm sorry, four day workshop. But I want my team to be the ones that are solutioning and, you know, doing all that fun stuff.

But then to your point, I want them to also see that I'm willing to also roll up my sleeves and I'm here to support them.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:30:24.050 - 00:31:05.290
Yeah, but it might just look different, right, than they think. It doesn't necessarily mean you're like, hey, move away from the keyboard, I'll take over. No, it's a different kind of rolling up your sleeves.

And I guess on the other side of that too, you've got to be careful around what you say and how you say it and when you say it. And like, let's just pick on this, like, workshop or these couple of workshops, right?

Because as a leader, sometimes something you say is taken as direction, right? Like, it's like you're almost not afforded having a loose opinion anymore, right.

And, or pondering out loud because of how people will tune in to what you're saying. Does that, does that make.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:31:05.690 - 00:31:51.800
Yeah. Yeah. So that's why for me is, you know, focusing around, like, more like, what are the.

What are my expectations, let's say, for, let's say, for this workshop. Right.

I may, I may talk about what, the expected outcomes as far as, like, the what, but the how is for you to figure out, you know, I want you guys to figure out, like, what is like the how because ultimately, like, they're the ones that are closer to the work, you know, six feet from the work. I'm here to just ensure that the outcomes of what we've aligned for the workshop, that those expectations are being met.

But I think, again, that becomes more of the what, the how. And I might talk about the why, like why we're here and why this is important and why our clients need us to focus on.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:31:52.520 - 00:32:12.560
So I'm going to zoom out again and again. Thinking of your kind of leadership arc here. Is there a lesson or two you can think of that you wish you would have learned sooner?

You know, if you kind of think back on, on your career, like something you wish you would have known, known sooner and acted upon sooner in terms of how you lead?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:32:14.080 - 00:34:06.050
Yeah, I'll say a big one for Me is really around expectations and accountability. Okay. So, you know, for me, I'm actually like a very, very natural intro. And I. And I love to build relationships with people.

One of the things that really bit me early on in my career is that I always wanted to maintain those positive relationships with folks.

And I probably didn't do the best of job of, like, holding teams accountable and being very direct with them around when I needed to have those difficult conversations with them. And so that. That. That bit me. And. And I would say even folks, you know, will tend to take advantage from leaders like that.

And so for me, that's one thing that I've really shifted on as I've progressed in my career, around setting expectations from the very beginning. And, you know, we.

We have a new team that just joined our broader team about two weeks ago, and that was literally the conversation that we had in the first week around expectations, around how and why we're here and how we're supporting this client. And I want. And I need everybody to hear that.

And so if I now need to hold those teams accountable or my team needs to hold those individuals accountable, we have some expectation that we can go back to.

And I've really made it a very purposeful effort to practice that day in and day out, because I said, I told myself I'll never let that happen again, because if anything, I don't want to not only hold myself back, but I also don't want to hold them back because if they're not being held accountable, how can they ever progress? How can they ever navigate through, let's say, subpar performance?

So that's probably, like, my biggest opportunity that I wish I would have learned just on day one.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:34:06.850 - 00:34:29.470
Yeah. I think it almost comes back to the basics of not only just learning how to provide feedback, but learning even more. Maybe even more importantly.

Right. Is like learning the importance of and when to provide feedback, which is usually early and often is sort of the answer.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:34:29.790 - 00:34:51.020
Yeah. I talk a lot about some of my team now around, like, fast feedback, and sometimes it might be.

For me, it might be feedback that's coming from the client. But I, you know, I tell my team and I have some new folks that just joined my team in the last couple of months.

I'm like, hey, I needed to just give this to you. And even. Sometimes even just raw, like, just kind of, like directly from, like, what the client shared with me.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:34:51.020 - 00:34:51.460
Yeah.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:34:51.460 - 00:35:11.580
Because I don't want to sugarcoat it for them either. I want them to really react to it.

I want them to Understand like what impact this has, you know, for not just themselves as leaders, but also like to the client relationship. And you know, then they, they find it to be more meaningful, you know, as well. Right. They appreciate that. Fast feedback.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:35:12.380 - 00:37:32.330
Yeah. I am kind of thinking back to my own experiences sort of leading talent reviews, right.

Where we're sort of identifying future potential leaders or successors or even my experience leading year end performance appraisal conversations, right.

And not leading the one on one conversation, but I'm kind of leading a group of leaders around sort of how they're calibrating around performance measurement, things like that. And something, a question sort of I find myself continuously tossing out and I wonder how this will hit you.

And I think it's like, I think it's something leaders should ask themselves on a regular basis, right?

Because I mean nowhere is it more glaringly obvious than in the annual performance review where we probably shove too many people into, into the middle and say yeah, they're meeting expectations, right. They're, they're not exceeding, they're not terrible, they're not below, but, but they're meeting expectations.

And I, I found myself regularly hearing about behavior that I, I found to sound questionable. Right.

Like there's a, a leadership team I'm, I'm thinking of, we were doing a talent review and you're like, yeah, nobody really wants to stay on this guy's team. You know, we reg.

They're regularly applying and, and moving off and you know, he's a bit of a bowl in a china shop, but he really gets things done and the numbers look great.

And you know, finding myself as an outsider just stopping to be like, hey, I just want to stop you right there because you have him in this like middle bucket. So let me just play this back for you. Nobody wants to stay on his team. He's kind of a bull in a china shop.

His numbers are good and that meets your expectations for him. Right. And like, and how that, you know, it can be a bit of an abrupt question when asked just kind of the right way.

But I find, you know, when, when leaders can stop themselves and say is how this person's showing up meeting my expectations for them. Right.

And, and, and you can kind of separate it from the performance review process if you need to, just to say, do I need to give this person feedback period? Right.

And, and that might be a safer place because I think everybody has feelings when we start to talk about the impact of the official performance process.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:37:33.690 - 00:38:33.380
Yeah, that was one thing.

Again, going back to expectations that I had to do with my team this last December, because our review period starts in December, so then we can do calibrations in March and deliver this in April. And I was just looking at, like, the previous year's performance ratings, and I'm like, whoa, wait a second. Like, what do you mean this person?

You know, we all have four level. It's either you don't meet. You're. You're good, you're strong, or you're exceptional. Right. So what.

What I kind of was hearing you say is around, like, there's people that are meeting the expectation, and sometimes people think of, like, hey, if I'm just meeting, like, that's not good enough. And, like, there's nothing wrong with that.

That's something that we talked a lot about at Meta when we were doing our calibration discussions, and that's actually pretty good. If you are meeting expectations, that means that for all the things that you can't need to do, you're all those things are getting done.

And so to me, I want.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:38:33.380 - 00:38:37.180
You're literally doing what we're asking. Earning your paycheck.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:38:37.180 - 00:39:52.420
Exactly, exactly.

And so there was folks that were doing that, and in the past, they were being rated at the next level, which is now, hey, like, they were, like, going above, like, hey, what. What is it that they're actually doing above expectations and come to those concrete examples? Because, I mean, you. You know this as well as I do.

You know, when we're in those calibration discussions, I'm gonna have to, like, calibrate those against other folks within the organization.

And if I can't tell a good story, then they're going to tell me, hey, George, sorry, but you're gonna have to put that person back to, like, you know, just meets expectations. And so I want to make sure that I'm prepared. So I need to challenge my team and say, all right, Kent, or whoever, John, like, what is the story?

And you got to put it in that review. And then for promotions, same thing, right? Is that. What is the story and how are they already operating at the next level? And.

And what are those examples and how they're doing it today? And so, again, it all comes down to, like, expectations.

And so I did challenge the team a little bit on that, and that was a little different from what, let's say, how they had been operating in the past. But again, I mean, you gotta.

You gotta just set from the very beginning, and so then that'll make future calibration discussion much more efficient for you as that senior leader.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:39:52.980 - 00:40:49.160
Yeah, well, and if you can bring that mentality to your day to day, right.

You, it, it should be less surprising to people right at mid year, year end because ideally, you know, your rating is consistent with how you've discussed their performance with them all year. Right. Well, as you were kind of mentioning performance and we're kind of promotion and we're winding down.

You know, a lot of my focus on my writing is about, you know, people who have just found themselves promoted. Right. And how do you leave the old role behind and really step into your new role? So I'm going to kind of get a, get us into our advice column here.

But the first thing I want to, let's take that a step back and say so for those leaders who are looking for their next promotion, they want to keep growing their career. They want that next level. What's, what's one piece of advice you have for leaders who are seeking that next, that next promotion?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:40:50.190 - 00:41:51.420
Yeah, I, I literally just had this conversation with somebody that exactly wants to do that.

And you know, my advice to him that I'll, that I'll share with you, Kent, is that network with those folks that have recently moved into that similar role or even into that role that you're targeting and then like, what was their experience? What was, what was it, what is it that they did to like get ready to move into that role?

And so I shared my story with, with this individual and you know, I told him like, let's, let's talk some more, let's go grab some coffee and let's, let's, you know, share a little bit more about my journey. And so to me, I think it's really important that you build your network.

You know, if, let's say if you're just, maybe even just kind of kicking the tires, if you're looking to explore that because one, you're going to get some wise advice and then two, you're building your network around other individuals that these could potentially be future colleagues with you. So, so find, find those, find those leaders who, who have had that experience of what you're trying to get into.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:41:52.220 - 00:42:19.520
Yeah, yeah, I love that.

And it can help kind of paint that picture of is there something you don't have a window into that you could start trying to get some experience or exposure to now. Right.

Cause I think going back to your point earlier about promotions, you know, I oftentimes what, what people are looking for is are they already operating at level. Right. So those, those, you know, that kind of networking can try to illuminate what operating at the next level might even look like.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:42:19.600 - 00:42:35.760
Yeah, just one quick follow up there, you know, and sometimes you kind of gotta go lateral. Right. So. And you know, people always talk about the career ladder. I always talk about the career lattice. Right.

Sometimes you gotta go across before you can go up. So. Yeah, getting those experiences are very valuable.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:42:36.610 - 00:42:53.810
Yeah. I've heard it described sometimes as a rock wall as well.

If you're familiar with rock climbing, sometimes you gotta go left to get to be able to go up. So on the flip side, you know, what's your advice for those who were just promoted?

You just, you know, they're in their first week, first month at a new level. What's your advice for them?

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:42:54.690 - 00:43:20.370
Yeah, so first, not that I have any stock or, you know, know the author personally, but I would always recommend. There's a book called the first 90 days by Michael Watkins. I've always re.

Reread that book for experiences that I've been in or shared it with others. But I'll kind of go back to what I just said on, on your last question. And it's also a network. And learn from others.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:43:20.690 - 00:43:21.170
Yeah.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:43:21.410 - 00:44:01.830
You know, get yourself a mentor, you know, who, who can you work with?

And not, not your direct manager, but another, let's say, senior leader that that person could be another person that could be become like what I call like your board of directors.

That as you think about like your career journey that you're going into now and promoted into this new role, how can you get some of that sage advice from those individuals? Request feedback, take time to reflect. What are your norms? I like to say, like, establish your ways of working before you get popular.

Because before you get popular now you're gonna have meeting calendars going like crazy. Right. And so what are your norms? What are you going to establish yourself to set up yourself for success?

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:44:02.310 - 00:44:38.720
Well, yeah, and I might, I might layer on that and say in the early days, get a couple of mentors, Right. One who's a peer, who. To your point, from the getting promoted part, find someone who was recently ish, promoted over the last year. Right.

And try to get some words of wisdom for how they got their feet under them most recently, as well as finding maybe a more senior. Either someone at your boss's level or a peer who has a longer tenure at that level. Right.

People who can kind of help you learn the unwritten rules you just sort of, you know, have stepped into.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:44:39.520 - 00:44:54.400
Yeah, yeah, it's very like you said.

Yeah, I love, like getting a couple of mentors I think that's where you kind of got to build your, like I call it your board of directors, really, that you can really. And even when you're considering roles too. Right. That they can give you some of that advice.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:44:54.800 - 00:45:07.690
Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, George, thanks for coming on today. I really appreciate it.

It's kind of fun hearing your journey and some of the stories, you know, that you have that kind of illuminate what some of these leadership lessons really look like on the ground.

Geroge Parada (guest)
00:45:08.250 - 00:45:10.490
Yes. My pleasure. Great to connect with you.

Kent Kniebel (host)
00:45:10.810 - 00:45:36.980
All right, thanks. That brings us to the end of our episode. Thank you for listening.

I'd encourage you to head on over to my website, Kent Coach, and start start a conversation with me there. Or check out my promoted leader toolkit at Kent Co Toolkit. Before you go on with your day, please take a moment to leave a rating and a review.

Wherever you listen to podcasts, click the five stars. That helps put this podcast in front of more ears. Till next time, take it easy.